Saturday, November 3, 2007

November 3rd Topic: Women in Authority in Gaming

Women in Gaming Get into Now Discusses
Women in Authority in Gaming
Thanks goes to Xfire for allowing us to host this chat : http://www.xfire.com/
You can find our little group Women in Gaming:Get into Now, at Xfire!
Just click on this url: http://www.xfire.com/clans/wiggin/
I am Badazz and I can be found right here on Xfire
> http://www.xfire.com/profile/badazzbiotch/

Not all views here are claimed as a whole by the group. This is a group of individual people from all over the planet, discussing the issues in gaming, especially related to what gaming is like now that women are into it as heavily as they are. This is a co-ed group, not a group of people believing in one gender rules all, but rather finding the points of interest and discussing the changes in our culture, in gaming and universally all over the world. We are changing the way people communicate, cooperate, and game. You can follow our discussions here or join our live chats at request by contacting me after joining Xfire yourself!
[12:03] Badazz: lets introduce ourselves without interruption
[12:04] [Xfire++] GODJonez: I am male, almost 21 years old and have been working for Xfire as Xfire Helper for a few months now. For some personal issues I could not take part of the Xfire's chat event, but now I am here :)
[12:04] Badazz: Ok Teratos
[12:04] Badazz: are you here yet?
[12:04] Badazz: Thanks Jonez
[12:04] Badazz: :)
[12:05] [Xfire++] GODJonez: oh, and I am here as an individual, not as Xfire employee ;)
[12:05] Badazz: Thanks.. I thought so
[12:05] Badazz: I am still waiting for some of the guests from last week to show up.
[12:05] Badazz: Hopefully they remembered and didnt get tied up with thier busy lives
[12:05] Schattenjager: Teratos is playing hallloooooooo
[12:05] Celeste: Since when are you employee Jonez :P
[12:05] Badazz: yes
[12:05] Badazz: but he is done now
[12:05] Badazz: :)
[12:06] [Xfire++] GODJonez: "few months"
[12:06] Badazz: Teratos
[12:06] Badazz: would you like to introduce yourself?
[12:06] Celeste: Xfire employee? :O
[12:08] Celeste: o.o?
[12:08] Nodgene: *eats dinner*
[12:08] [{A}Teratos: Sorry, what am I supposed to do, I'm catching up
[12:08] Nodgene: decribe yourself
[12:08] Badazz: introduce yourself
[12:08] [{A}Teratos: Oh
[12:08] Badazz: hehe
[12:08] Schattenjager: lmao
[12:08] Badazz: smacks tera on the head
[12:08] [{A}Teratos: Alright, I'm a civil engineering student at WVU, in my third year.
[12:09] [{A}Teratos: :-/
[12:09] Badazz: And your interest in this chat is?
[12:09] [{A}Teratos: I run a bit, and I know Badazz (forgive me please).
[12:09] Nodgene: WVU?
[12:09] Badazz: shhh
[12:10]
[12:10]
[12:10] [{A}Teratos: sorry
[12:10] [{A}Teratos: I work as Director of Marketing & PR at RenWerX
[12:10] [{A}Teratos: and yes, West Virginia University
[12:10] Badazz: I am Badazz
[12:10] Badazz: I am also known as Babz
[12:11] Badazz: I game, I play tribes 2 and any puzzle game I can get my hands on.
[12:11] Badazz: I am a community leader for Elite Warriors Online, admin, server admin and teamspeak host. I also have over 250 contacts on my trillian
[12:11] Badazz: I assist at Renwerx as the Lead Recruiter
[12:11] Badazz: I am a woman gamer, mother of a gamer and wife of a gamer (almost)
[12:12] Badazz: we arent married..
[12:12] Badazz: but he is a good gamer
[12:12] Badazz: :)
[12:12] Badazz: Celeste?
[12:12] Celeste: meow?
[12:12] Badazz: ya you
[12:13] Badazz: ok is that all?
[12:13] Badazz: lol
[12:13] [Xfire++] GODJonez: isn't that enought for her?
[12:13] Badazz: Ok Hellspawn, why did I invite you and who are you?
[12:14] Nodgene: haha
[12:14] HellSpawn07: Ima dude, 39yo. my real name is kirk. Currently sound effects lead for RenWerX game Ascension. My history is strewn with sound capabilities and have done countless works in the Tribes 2 community such as...over 200 replacement sounds, skins, GUI's and other misc. goodies and am still active in a clan that I've been in for 8 years. I can't pwn anyone in a game but I can pwn like mad in a community... . My thing for being here is because I've always treated everyone the same...male/female/race...whatever. And I got backup to prove it ;p there's too much for me to say in this room so here's me: http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Venge
[12:15] Celeste: My name is Celeste, also known as Mewi. I am an A+ certified technician as of the end of last month. I also like to do art/graphic design on my spare time. I have a past history of fighting online bigotry, corruption and other things of the sort as well as have a position in three LGBT community non profit organizations. I also like to say I have alot of knowledge on law related topics ;p
[12:16] Badazz: thanks Celeste
[12:16] Badazz: :)
[12:16] Badazz: Ok, Nod
[12:16] Celeste: oh yeah, I am female, a lesbian :P
[12:16] Schattenjager: hehe
[12:16] HellSpawn07: :
[12:17] Celeste: and im 22? XP
[12:17] Badazz: I am female straight and had four kids and ama gramma
[12:17] Badazz: 40
[12:17] Schattenjager: Old woman :p
[12:17] Badazz: stfu
[12:17] [Xfire++] GODJonez: hah
[12:17] HellSpawn07: old hag
[12:17] Schattenjager: no... you sdfu :p
[12:17] Celeste: You just owned her XD
[12:17] Schattenjager: LOL
[12:17] Nodgene: Good evening everyone! I am a 19yo male studying games design games design at university in Bolton; England. My have a wide range of intellectual interests, and a keen interest in gaming ad game design I plan to use to set up a games design studio after University. .... And, I think that's a general jist of things..
[12:18] Nodgene: I*
[12:18] Badazz: another friend from renwerx has decided to join us
[12:18] hybernuclear: hi
[12:18] Badazz: Meet CytoNuclear
[12:18] Nodgene: THOSE folk.
[12:18] Badazz: well hyber here
[12:18] Nodgene: Hello :)
[12:18] SnoWytch: Hello :)
[12:18] hybernuclear: ;)
[12:18] Schattenjager: Yo
[12:18] Celeste: welcome to hell :O
[12:18] hybernuclear: hi lolll
[12:19] HellSpawn07: thank you
[12:19] Badazz: ok, Shatt, tell everyone who you are and we will get cyto last
[12:19] Celeste: not you!
[12:19] HellSpawn07: lol
[12:19] Schattenjager: Hey.... im in Hell leave my home outt a it :p
[12:19] Badazz: slow down
[12:19] Badazz: shat.. intro
[12:19] HellSpawn07: if anyone is in me...I'd know it
[12:19] Badazz: HS07!!
[12:19] Badazz: shhhh
[12:19] Badazz: she is typing... shhh
[12:20] hybernuclear: wyoming
[12:20] hybernuclear: yeah
[12:20] [{A}Teratos: from renwerx?
[12:20] Nodgene: Americans!
[12:20] [{A}Teratos: o rly?
[12:20] hybernuclear: i don't have a mic but I can hear ya guyz
[12:20] Nodgene: brb
[12:21] hybernuclear: lol
[12:22] Schattenjager: Ok, well i've been online since 93 with various games like MUD's. I am nothing specially really. Known Babz for quite a few years but i've not figured out just how long. I am female, 32 and techsupport for medical EMR program through McKesson. I've been with tribes2 sine it first came out but didn't get to meet Babz and Lone till after I joined Miami Vehicals. Of course when they decided to be bastards... gave up that. Babz pulled me into EWo and things have been yo-yo'ing since. Why I am here? Because I am the sort to see both sides of the story I guess. Not sure, have to ask Babz about that.
[12:23] Badazz: all right, sno are you here ?
[12:23] SnoWytch: Yes!
[12:23] Badazz: yay
[12:23] hybernuclear: woot
[12:23] Badazz: she skipped class to attend btw
[12:23] HellSpawn07: oooo
[12:23] SnoWytch: My name is Victoria and I am a 39 year old mom of three girls, ages 11, 8 and 6. I am working on my Masters in Computer Information Systems concentrating in Database Administration at Denver University. I started gaming in the late 70s and plan on being buried with my Xbox.:D

I am here to discuss women's issues within the gaming industry which not only affect myself, but my daughters who are becoming gamers also.
[12:23] Schattenjager: woot wtg
[12:23] hybernuclear: lol it's saturday?
[12:23] HellSpawn07: I'm tellin
[12:23] SnoWytch: :D
[12:24] SnoWytch: I attend online, its everyday for class
[12:24] hybernuclear: ahh oks
[12:24]
[12:24] Badazz: There we go
[12:24] Badazz: Hi apocolyptica...
[12:24] Apocalyptica: hiya
[12:24] hybernuclear: Hi
[12:24] SnoWytch: Hello :)
[12:24] HellSpawn07: if we have any questions...we should ask her 'cause she's got college
[12:25] hybernuclear: I'm in college
[12:25] Badazz: ok
[12:25] HellSpawn07: Masters
[12:25] HellSpawn07: ;p
[12:25] Celeste: I've got college ;p
[12:25] Badazz: apocolyptica was late getting here, i am going to paste the logs to her to help her catch up with who we are
[12:25] * HellSpawn07 just got schooled
[12:25] Apocalyptica: thanks :)
[12:25] Schattenjager: lmao
[12:25] Celeste: she knows who I am :P
[12:25] Badazz: and until then, w ewil have Hyber and her introduce themselves one at a time
[12:25] Apocalyptica: was out for a meal. it is evening here ^^
[12:26] hybernuclear: huh?
[12:26] Nodgene: back
[12:26] [{A}Teratos: Time zones make the internet even more interesting.
[12:26] hybernuclear: lol
[12:26] Apocalyptica: indeed
[12:26] hybernuclear: ok
[12:26] hybernuclear: ummm
[12:28] Nodgene: I'm at university! Why does my positiion not get mentioned?!
[12:28] hybernuclear: I live in wyoming, was born in Dallas, TX ummn, been playing comp games since I can remember, T2 is fave and Ascension is gonna rox the house. I'm currently 18 and freshman in college University of Wyoming studying pre med
[12:28] Celeste: congrats Nodgene :p
[12:28] Nodgene: :D
[12:30] Badazz: ok apocolyptica, can you tell everyone here who you are? your turn
[12:32] Apocalyptica: ok, so I am Apocalyptica, I am 39 and been playing games since I am 7. I am a programmer and used to be part of a game developing company making §D RTS PC Games.. Now I ahve my own company and we are developing 3D Browserbesed MMO's
[12:32] Badazz: Thanks!
[12:32] hybernuclear: like Adventure Quest?
[12:33] Badazz: OK guys, we have a half an hour til 1 when officially our chat should start, i am going to round up the others if i can
[12:33] Apocalyptica: more like a mix between Diabola and and mordern MMORPG
[12:33] Apocalyptica: *Diabolo
[12:33] hybernuclear: ok
[12:33] hybernuclear: cool
[12:33] HellSpawn07: need someone for sounds?
[12:33] Celeste: Diablo*?
[12:33] HellSpawn07: ;x
[12:33] Apocalyptica: ^^
[12:33] Apocalyptica: thanks, bit sounds already
[12:33] hybernuclear: >:)
[12:34] Badazz: Hellspawn is the bomb
[12:34] Apocalyptica: lol, my typing has taking a turn to the worse ^^
[12:34] hybernuclear: what is HS doing?
[12:34] Celeste: Adventure quest is that web based flash game :p
[12:34] Celeste: lol XD
[12:34] HellSpawn07: same thing you're doing hybernuclear
[12:34] Apocalyptica: yes, we are not using flash, don't like flash at all :p
[12:34] hybernuclear: htat;s good
[12:34] Apocalyptica: can't do 3D ^^
[12:34] Badazz: go ahead and chat together, and godjones is gonna call the office and hunt down brinstar right?
[12:34] HellSpawn07: I'm wondering what I'm doing too
[12:34] hybernuclear: and what am I doins hell?
[12:35] Nodgene: apocalyptica, I'd be interested in discussing issues of setting up a games studio with you at some point. I need to know the like, specifically hiring and financing.
[12:36] Apocalyptica: stuff like that you can always ask me via email. One can make a lot longer text ^^ jasmin@pixeltamer.net.
[12:36] [Xfire++] GODJonez: no
[12:36] hybernuclear: ok
[12:36] Apocalyptica: thanks
[12:36] Nodgene: righteo
[12:36] [Xfire++] GODJonez: no idea where she would be
[12:37] Apocalyptica: Oh I forgot, I am also the tech lead tutor for the master degree students for the gaming university of Gotland, Sweden ^^
[12:37] HellSpawn07: :o
[12:37] [{A}Teratos: cool
[12:37] [Xfire++] GODJonez: hmm, gaming university?
[12:37] Nodgene: Your knowladge will prove useful.
[12:37] HellSpawn07: how could you possibly forget something like that?
[12:37] HellSpawn07: ;p
[12:37] Nodgene: hellspawn has a point
[12:38] hybernuclear: no kidding :P
[12:38] * HellSpawn07 puts a hat on to cover the point
[12:38] Apocalyptica: yes, in sweden being a game programmer or artist is like a nirmal job and one even can get state funding to study it
[12:38] hybernuclear: lol
[12:38] Badazz: wow
[12:38] Badazz: that is great jasmin
[12:38] hybernuclear: nice
[12:38] Apocalyptica: yes I could , I forget my head if it was not screwed on ;)
[12:39] HellSpawn07: where do they plug you in?
[12:39] Apocalyptica: yes, gaming in europe has become a lot of recongition
[12:39] Nodgene: yeah, france I believe initiated a recognition of gaming as worth of state funding; the same as art or cinema. and the UK is setting up a lot of games design courses.
[12:39] Apocalyptica: hehe
[12:39] HellSpawn07: :)
[12:39] Badazz: gaming in europe is a lot more normal there, not gender specific as much huh
[12:39] Apocalyptica: yes, here in germany it is happening too
[12:39] hybernuclear: wish I were there... almost
[12:39] Apocalyptica: indeed. genders does nto matter what so ever here in germany
[12:39] HellSpawn07: that's because you're not normal babs
[12:40] Nodgene: You poor Americans; I don't know how you survive in your messed up society :(
[12:40] Badazz: lol
[12:40] Badazz: now now
[12:40] HellSpawn07: it's tough
[12:40] Apocalyptica: well I used to live in US and am happy to be back in europe I must admit
[12:40] SnoWytch: I miss Germany
[12:40] hybernuclear: hahahahahaahhahaaaaa
[12:40] hybernuclear: no jk
[12:40] hybernuclear: jk
[12:40] [{A}Teratos: Interesting...
[12:40] [Xfire++] GODJonez: Finland pwns
[12:40] Schattenjager: What gets me is the attitudes about whats going on in the world.... :(
[12:40] Nodgene: They produce killer weapons... Literally.
[12:40] Celeste: >.> there is nothing wrong with American society....
[12:41] Nodgene: what with?
[12:41] hybernuclear: who?
[12:41] [{A}Teratos: So stigmas surrounding females gaming are non-existant in Europe?
[12:41] Schattenjager: I hate how people hate on a country
[12:41] HellSpawn07: afk...political talk
[12:41] Celeste: and its not as 'messed up' as foreigners claim
[12:41] hybernuclear: what?
[12:41] Badazz: slow down on the politics
[12:41] Badazz: ok
[12:41] Badazz: :)
[12:41] hybernuclear: oh
[12:41] Apocalyptica: well in germany there isn't, same as females gamers
[12:41] Schattenjager: Sorry, most attitudes stem from IRL events.
[12:41] Badazz: well we are here to discuss the culture of gaming
[12:41] Nodgene: No, because there's still more girls doing girly things than gaming.
[12:42] Badazz: and women in it
[12:42] Badazz: and the differences, the challenes and the benefits
[12:42] HellSpawn07: i do guy things more than gaming too
[12:42] Nodgene: Maybe that's just the UK though.
[12:42] Schattenjager: That is why certain aears have certain attiudes. Euro's have a laid back attitude but americans dont...
[12:42] SnoWytch: brb, break before next chat starts
[12:42] hybernuclear: I've heard 28-48ish women do more gaing than any other group
[12:42] HellSpawn07: there's a reason for that hyber
[12:42] Apocalyptica: well I have been in gaming since I am 7 and am now 39 :P
[12:42] Schattenjager: *chuckles*
[12:42] Nodgene: Americans have a dangerously large number of religious fanatics. Some of them are as bad as Al-Queada.
[12:42] hybernuclear: lool well that too
[12:43] Badazz: i have been gaming all my life
[12:43] HellSpawn07: because men turn into assheads at that age group
[12:43] Badazz: first it was board games, then cards, then video games then the ARCADE
[12:43] Schattenjager: True.. btu that doesnt give anyone a right to put everyone into that catagory y'know?
[12:43] Nodgene: lol, males are worst at teenage years. Surely?
[12:43] HellSpawn07: no
[12:43] Badazz: no
[12:43] HellSpawn07: mid 30s
[12:43] Badazz: i live with a 50 year old gamer that is male
[12:43] Schattenjager: :ift... Bab look at Toetag :p
[12:43] Badazz: he is grumpy
[12:43] [{A}Teratos: [15:41] Nodgene: Americans have a dangerously large number of religious fanatics. Some of them are as bad as Al-Queada. <<<>.>
[12:49] [{A}Teratos: The media eats that stuff up, we really don' t have many of those folks, and most religious folks don't care about modern Isreal except in a purely secular way.
[12:50] hybernuclear: hmmn hmmn not so sure about that teratos
[12:50] hybernuclear: fairly accurate
[12:50] Celeste: Yes sorry that wanting equal rights makes us gays and lesbians 'far worse'
[12:50] HellSpawn07: I was discussing on the phone to an old clan member/Leader (that is female) about an old clan member that I wasn't going to let into the clan because she couldn't offer anything to the team such as support or skillwise on our competition ladder. I let her in because she was trying to find somewhere comfortable to be because no one would accept her. It was a very odd situation
[12:50] Nodgene: I know that there is a majority who are friendly folk; I even know one creationist from the states who is a lovely and tolerant person. But how does your government get so influenced by weird right-wing ideals and such?
[12:51] * [{A}Teratos now confirms that Europeans can be rude.
[12:51] hybernuclear: Well. your society is agnostic, ours isn't. end of story
[12:51] Celeste: I dont know what 'influence' you are talking about.
[12:51] Nodgene: So can Americans :P We Europeans arn't a quiet bunch though, I'll grant you :)
[12:51] [Xfire++] GODJonez: <- is quiet [12:52] hybernuclear: lol [12:52] Nodgene: American policies on everything from stem-cells to isreal. [12:52] [{A}Teratos: I'm a *weird* creationist from the states. Our government is influenced by corruption, like your European governments - it just advertises it under a different banner. [12:52] HellSpawn07: I'm not here to gripe about countries or political and religious views. The matter at hand is equality in gaming [12:52] hybernuclear: yes [12:52] hybernuclear: yes to both of above [12:52] HellSpawn07: can we please get back on track? [12:52] Nodgene: I suppose that is right :( [12:52] Nodgene: Sorry. [12:52] hybernuclear: on trak = +++ [12:52] HellSpawn07: :) [12:52] Badazz: ty [12:52] Nodgene: I don't see a great disparity between males and females in gaming. *shrugs* [12:53] HellSpawn07: that's why you're here [12:53] HellSpawn07: :P [12:53] Nodgene: :) [12:53] Schattenjager: Hmm, liet me give you all an example [12:53] Nodgene: Shoot [12:53] hybernuclear: yes? [12:53] Schattenjager: Warrock, I play that a lot.... [12:53] Nodgene: I played that when it was a free beta. [12:53] Schattenjager: In there the range of ages are 11 to 50 something [12:53] SnoWytch: I see myself as a Gamer. I don't really see male or female when I am online gameing [12:54] hybernuclear: if they are cussing alot and dirty talking = male in general [12:54] Celeste: Everyone is so obsessed with US government because it happens to be the only 1st world country in the world. So jealousy arises and people target the US with little lies, rumours, gossip etc. [12:54] hybernuclear: oN TRAK! [12:54] Badazz: ok we are done talking about america and europe [12:54] Schattenjager: But as soon as I tell someone i am female I get these young little fucks haraassing me. Hell in WR you get clans harassing anyone who has a tag in the game. That makes it uncomfortable to play. But you find that harassment everywhere and its not gender based. [12:54] Nodgene: what's wrong with cursing? When your friend sneaks up beind you and smacks your head in, crawling back when you were on a role - that's worth a loud profanity! [12:54] Celeste: I'm not done -.- [12:54] Schattenjager: Basicly human nature is to compete and who's top dog. Women are seen as poor figures for that position. [12:55] HellSpawn07: the thing that I see too many women suffer is when they are found out to "be" female...they get bashed and pinpointed about everything they do and why should anything like that happen?...because of male insecurities [12:55] hybernuclear: Celeste, but you aRE off track, plz come back on [12:55] Nodgene: I'd disagree. Women sadly have a greater capacity for social understanding and manipulation than males. [12:55] hybernuclear: agree with HS and i am male [12:55] Badazz: ok [12:55] Celeste: You recently said a negative thing about homosexuals hybernuclear. That is something I cannot ignore -.- [12:55] Badazz: I have a list of topic questions to use today [12:55] Badazz: and you guys are actually hitting right on them [12:56] Badazz: So lets get this started by everyone hushing up while I get this started [12:56] hybernuclear: Nodge again you are misinformed, they just tend to grvtate that way, same as the gravitate towadr laguange while men gravitate towar mathe/shience [12:56] Nodgene: But hellspawn, girls get hit on ALL the time. Doesn't matter where. It's not something specific to gaming that can be fixed if it's root is a social problem or attitude. [12:56] Badazz: SHHHHHHH [12:56] [Xfire++] GODJonez: once a female gamer, nick Lea, joined my Counter-Strike server where I was playing with my friend. Unlike many other random people that joined the server, it was nice to play with her [12:56] hybernuclear: ok [12:56] HellSpawn07: personal sexuality is not a topic for discussion...can we leave it at that please? [12:56] [{A}Teratos: +m this channel :) [12:56]
[12:56]
[12:56]
[12:56] Celeste: I am female, I am lesbian. Since lesbians are related to women and gaming, sexuality is related as well.
[12:56]
[12:56]
[12:57]
[12:57]
[12:57] Badazz: OKay
[12:57] Nodgene: MODERATION!
[12:57] hybernuclear: sorry celeste
[12:57] [{A}Teratos: I can see Celeste's point there.
[12:57] Badazz: now. I have some questions I am going to layout
[12:57] Badazz: as we go along
[12:57] Badazz: one person at a time will talk as I name them
[12:57] Badazz: if there is too much interruption you will be muted
[12:57] hybernuclear: i just mean the disparity is greaet that with right wing, I wasn't puting you down
[12:57] Badazz: hyber
[12:57] Badazz: pls
[12:57] hybernuclear: ok
[12:58] Nodgene: Uh, well they "graviatate" towards that because it's a natural thing. I don't see how whatyou're saying effects what I said, please explain.
[12:58] Badazz: thank you
[12:58] Badazz: NOD

[12:58] Badazz: shhh
[12:58] Nodgene: : Sorry, I focus on typing and not reading.
[12:58] Nodgene: until I'm done :)
[12:58] Badazz: everyone will get a chance to get a question
[12:58] hybernuclear: yes'm
[12:58] Badazz: and everyone will be given an opportunity to discuss after that person is done
[12:59] Badazz: show some respect and hold your tongue even if it is burning inside you.. write in notepad so you dont forget if you have to
[12:59] Badazz: but dont interrupt
[12:59] Badazz: Last week it was hard because a question would be asked and everyone would answer at once
[12:59] Badazz: so i want this to go much more smoothly
[12:59] Badazz: ok
[12:59] Badazz: you can respond yes or no now
[12:59] Badazz: :)
[13:00] Badazz: or request to be muted :) LOL
[13:00] Badazz: OK
[13:00] Nodgene: K! It's hard! Not to type stuff when you feel passionately about it and don't realise what someone has typed until you press "enter"!
[13:00] Badazz: the first set of questions is for a woman
[13:00] Nodgene: *is quiet*
[13:00] hybernuclear: ditto
[13:00] Badazz: so I am going to pick Apocoliptica
[13:00] Apocalyptica: here
[13:00] Apocalyptica: ^^
[13:01] Badazz: this is a set of three
[13:01] Badazz: Do you believe that your role as a woman has enhanced your ability to be in a role of authority, and if so, how?

Do you see any difference as an authority person, in how you are treated by people?

Better or worse, by men or by women?
[13:03] Apocalyptica: Answer to No1: No I truly believe that it was not me beeing female that gave me first my job and then my own firm. It was a pssion for games, knowledge about gaming and a passion for my job, meaning a passion to code. Only this got me my position fist as a coder to be employed, then a lead coder and then my own firm. I am also a good teamplayer and no primadonna which is important in a big team
[13:04] Apocalyptica: Answer to No2: Yes, wenn I am dealing with international peeps I do have to show them that I have experience and also know what I am talking about. Once they realize this, I am totally accepted as a person and not looked upon as a female.
[13:06] Apocalyptica: Answer NO3: By women I find I am treated usually worse as in my experience (there are always exeptions of course) women want to be more than euqal and when they start talking to me and my views, they totally cannot understand. I do realize that is because of the cultural difference and explain. After that all usually goes finde
[13:06] Apocalyptica: *fine
[13:06] Badazz: Thanks Jasmine
[13:07] Apocalyptica: anytime :)
[13:07] Badazz: Ok is there anyone in the room burning to respond to this?
[13:07] hybernuclear: I agree completely with all 3
[13:07] Apocalyptica: thanks :)
[13:07] SnoWytch: I do also, especially No 3
[13:08] Nodgene: Women treat each other wose? I have noticed how bitchy teenage girls and girls can be, but nothing of women?
[13:08] Nodgene: worse*
[13:08] SnoWytch: Sometimes this is the case, i have found
[13:08] [{A}Teratos: I can believe #2, but I think it will fade in the coming years.
[13:09] Badazz: Ok, Snowytch
[13:09] Badazz: Does the natural mothering skills of a woman give her an advantage as a leader in gaming, do people respond well to that persona?
[13:10] SnoWytch: I think so. It tends to come out unintentionally when gaming. I have serveral adopted little brothers from WoW that I tend to be motherly to. This could just be me though. As a mom, I do tend to take charge of situations.
[13:10] Badazz: Would anyone like to respond to the question or answer?
[13:11] HellSpawn07: yes
[13:11] Badazz: go for it
[13:11] HellSpawn07: mmmm...
[13:11] HellSpawn07: not all women have those capabilities entirely
[13:11] HellSpawn07: solely based on their upbringing
[13:11] HellSpawn07: BUT
[13:11] Nodgene: You'd be suprised.
[13:12] [Xfire++] GODJonez: I believe that for this subject the type of game has a significant role. In a MMORPG like World of Warcraft I think it would really work, but in other kinds of games, such as FPS games the mothery way would not be effective
[13:12] hybernuclear: again i have to agree SW, sounds right to me. as to HS, lol
[13:12] Nodgene: oops, spoke out of turn - sorry.
[13:12] HellSpawn07: there is a certain "mortar that keeps the brick in place" that men in general cannot supply
[13:13] HellSpawn07: done
[13:13] Apocalyptica: yes I totally agree with GodJOnez
[13:13] Badazz: I dont
[13:13] Badazz: I am totally FPS
[13:13] Badazz: and we host a chat
[13:13] Nodgene: Nor do I.
[13:13] Badazz: I have to pul my mommy hat on regularly
[13:13] [{A}Teratos: I see Badazz attempt this quite often. I think some gamers respond to it quite well. I've known several that use gaming as an escape from poor conditions IRL, if you will, and have noticed that they are particularly interested in being 'adopted'.
[13:13] hybernuclear: i agree with him somewaht
[13:13] Badazz: with leaders and with youngsters
[13:13] Nodgene: Your proection of your peers becomes more prominent in more intense FPS scenarios.
[13:13] hybernuclear: doeant completely control it, but does affect some
[13:14] Badazz: I have had to quiet battles stemmed from gameplay
[13:14] Nodgene: although my friends just either run into death or kill me. So it's not that usual for me to be teamworking on FPS :(
[13:14] Badazz: i have had to organize events
[13:14] Badazz: the men have taught me alot about strategy and the sort
[13:14] HellSpawn07: Babs took over my role so I stopped coming around
[13:14] HellSpawn07: lol
[13:15] Badazz: but I think that they have learned tolerance and modified admin powers from me
[13:15] Badazz: instead of big hammers, they think before they strike now
[13:15] hybernuclear: lol
[13:15] Badazz: OK next
[13:16] Badazz: Jonez
[13:16] Badazz: What do women to do differently as a leader than a man would have done? Do you notice a particular difference in style, expectations etc?
[13:17] [Xfire++] GODJonez: typing
[13:18] [Xfire++] GODJonez: I have personally not seen so many cases where I had known that the person taking the lead would be female, so I cannot really answer this question for sure. But I have a feeling that there isn't so much of a difference, especially when it comes to games requiring skill.
[13:19] Badazz: how about in your position as an xfire staff member?
[13:19] Badazz: that is part of hte gaming culture, communication programs like this
[13:19] Badazz: there are men and women on the staff.. do you notice any differences?
[13:19] [Xfire++] GODJonez: the company hierarchy really doesn't make me applicable for that question
[13:20] Badazz: does xfire use the women differently?
[13:20] [Xfire++] GODJonez: but they are quite equal as far as I can see
[13:20] Badazz: has anyone else got a response to this as well?
[13:20] [Xfire++] GODJonez: I'd say there are surprisingly many women working for Xfire
[13:20] Nodgene: Yes
[13:21] Celeste: 5 total
[13:21] hybernuclear: hmnn I would say women treat leadersip/admin more as a responsibility in general, men as a priveledge
[13:21] SnoWytch: I would think women tend to work more with emotions, and use this in leadership
[13:21] Apocalyptica: I find there is differenhces between coder, grafik artist and level designer, but no differences between gender
[13:21] Celeste: 5 out of 30 at xfire headquarters
[13:21] [{A}Teratos: I agree with hybernuclear.
[13:22] Badazz: hmmfp... makes me think of someone, but i will be mum about it
[13:22] Badazz: ok
[13:22] Nodgene: I'd say men make poor team members.
[13:22] hybernuclear: and this is boviously not always true, as there are the "different" people like me
[13:22] Badazz: Celeste, i am gonna give you a Juicy one
[13:22] Badazz: *Do you think that women can be catty, especially with each other and can this affect leadership roles?
[13:22] HellSpawn07: I agree with that Nod
[13:22] Nodgene: In my experience, a good friend of mine who is a competent gamer usually manages to fail a team because he fails to tell the other what he needs to do, or fails to ask when he needs help, or correlate at all with a team plan.
[13:22] Badazz: Nod...
[13:23] Badazz: I asked celeste a question
[13:23] HellSpawn07: Badazz: Celeste, i am gonna give you a Juicy one
Badazz: *Do you think that women can be catty, especially with each other and can this affect leadership roles?
[13:23] Nodgene: Sorry, I was responding to the "Badazz: has anyone else got a response to this as well?"
[13:23] Badazz: hehe ok
[13:23] Badazz: shh
[13:23] Nodgene: :(
[13:23] Badazz: sorry
[13:23] Celeste: Not really, anyone can conflict with anyone. That "catty" term was a mediavised influence that placed the idea in men that if two girls fight they will eventually engage in some sort of lesbian romance.
[13:23] hybernuclear: huh?
[13:23] Badazz: realy?
[13:23] Nodgene: what?
[13:23] Badazz: never heard that but ok
[13:24] hybernuclear: that was random
[13:24] Nodgene: *laughs*
[13:24] Nodgene: fantadtic myth.
[13:24] Celeste: aka "cat fight"
[13:24] Nodgene: fanatastic*
[13:24] * HellSpawn07 falls out of his chair
[13:24] Nodgene: haha
[13:24] hybernuclear: Irlly wanna laugh right now
[13:24] Badazz: OK lets keep this real
[13:24] [{A}Teratos: wow
[13:24] Badazz: ok
[13:24] HellSpawn07: wtf
[13:24] hybernuclear: ok
[13:24] Celeste: I am quite serious.
[13:24] hybernuclear: I kow you are
[13:24] Badazz: Celeste would you like to speak more?
[13:25] Celeste: I am the one that chooses when to speak ;p
[13:25] Badazz: Ok are you done?
[13:25] Celeste: maybe, maybe not ;3
[13:25] hybernuclear: >:0
[13:25] Badazz: she is the devil.
[13:25] hybernuclear: lol
[13:25] HellSpawn07: we're just trying to keep thingsa movin
[13:25] Badazz: ok celeste i am moving on to the next question
[13:25] Badazz: For... hmmmm
[13:25] hybernuclear: thx
[13:25] Badazz: who do i pick for this one
[13:26] Badazz: Teratos
[13:26] [{A}Teratos: oh my
[13:26] Badazz: What do you do to protect the younger groups of players that come in.
[13:26] * HellSpawn07 points at Teratos
[13:26] [{A}Teratos: Aww, I've run a clan since 2003
[13:27] hybernuclear: >:O age discrim!
[13:27] Nodgene: haha
[13:27] [{A}Teratos: no
[13:27] [{A}Teratos: typing
[13:28] [{A}Teratos: We were worried we might have problems with younger players (and our few females) being at risk from older players. We didn't really verify ages or backgrounds. What we did was closely monitor VoIP, and publicized information about "e-safety". We also had rules regarding personal information. It worked out quite well I think.
[13:29] Badazz: Those are really great tactics
[13:29] Badazz: Anyone else want to comment?
[13:29] hybernuclear: That's called good planning. Excellent work.
[13:29] HellSpawn07: very sexy
[13:29] hybernuclear: ????
[13:29] [{A}Teratos: Note: I was one of the kids at the time, but no one knew.
[13:29] hybernuclear: lol
[13:30] Celeste: As a moderator I'd like to say that keeping certain players PG is usually an impossible goal and that banning them is usually the only solution.
[13:30] Badazz: I know one of my things, is that I speak to the females immediately, and let them know that we are here, and if there is any trouble at all to immediately contact myself or another admin. we dont tolerate women being harrassed.
[13:31] HellSpawn07: she's got her finger on the button at all times!
[13:31] hybernuclear: agree with Celeste *, and Badazz.
[13:31] Badazz: ok
[13:31] Badazz: Shatt, did i ask you anything yet?
[13:31] Schattenjager: nope
[13:32] Badazz: How do you handle group situations, when adult topics pop up unexpectedly in mixed age groups?
[13:32] Nodgene: *laughs* "shat" here is a humorously warped form of the word "shit" :D
[13:32] Apocalyptica: I kick them from the chat
[13:32] Badazz: hold on
[13:32] Apocalyptica: ups sorry
[13:32] Badazz: everyone.. shat's turn
[13:32] Celeste: Some players/members think they own chat rooms or forum sections so they deny the rules in which the server is advocated by. Oftenly talk back is usually this "if they dont like it they can leave"
[13:33] Nodgene: brb
[13:33] Celeste: "I didnt ask them to read my post"
[13:33] hybernuclear: she was being sarc
[13:33] Badazz: OK that question was for shattenjagger
[13:33] Badazz: shhh
[13:33] Celeste: "If they are old enough to type, they are old enough to deal with it"
[13:33] Celeste: o.O
[13:36] Schattenjager: *eyes them* Well, me, since I can't do jack shit about it i tend to mute them if its beyound what I wish to hear. There's not much I can't handle. I am 32, I am an adult. I curse just as badly as the men at times. If I find something inappropiate I am going to let others know what I think pretty bluntly. Over here, there is issues with age, in europe and all there are no issues. America regulates things where was others around the world do not. Yes if they are old enough maybe they should be able to handle it . Either way, it depends on the adult situation. Me, i have no problem with it but sometimes others don't need to hear it. Not that it really answers the question.
[13:36] Badazz: Ok, anyone else want to comment before we move to next question?
[13:37] hybernuclear: I Engage (as many of the youngsters as possible) them in personal chats so they don't have to see it while politely reccomending that the offender leave, if they don't I ban them >;)
[13:37] hybernuclear: and mute is always good too, permanently
[13:37] Badazz: this brings us to Voice binds
[13:37] SnoWytch: On the other side, it is my responsibility as a parent to monitor my child online and in games.
[13:37] Badazz: How does Everyone here feel about auto voice binds that can be altered skewed and made to be really gross
[13:38] [Xfire++] GODJonez: hate em
[13:38] hybernuclear: grrr
[13:38] Nodgene: eh?
[13:38] * HellSpawn07 pleas the 5th
[13:38] Nodgene: Explain please what a "voice bind" is?
[13:38] hybernuclear: I like alterable, but oughta auto blok nastiness
[13:38] Badazz: hellspawn07
[13:38] hybernuclear: V, V, G.
[13:38] Badazz: could you define voice binds
[13:38] Badazz: ?
[13:38] HellSpawn07: yes
[13:38] Badazz: without providing gross ones?
[13:38] Badazz: lol
[13:39] HellSpawn07: a voice bind is a command path of keys to generate an audio voice clip in game to notify another player
[13:39] Nodgene: k
[13:39] hybernuclear: V, G, C for you T1 players, jk.
[13:39] Badazz: ok
[13:39] Badazz: next question
[13:39] Nodgene: sort of like spamming audio taunts?
[13:39] [{A}Teratos: lol, tribes isn't the only series to have such things.
[13:39] Badazz: yes
[13:40] Nodgene: k
[13:40] hybernuclear: except faster and worse
[13:40] Nodgene: righteo
[13:40] Badazz: Who did i miss?
[13:40] Badazz: nod?
[13:40] Badazz: have you had a question yet? hyber? who is next
[13:40] hybernuclear: i haven't
[13:40] Badazz: Ok Cytonuclear... as I know you
[13:40] hybernuclear: hmmmn?
[13:41] hybernuclear: I'm fine, just ask for my veiwpoint
[13:41] Nodgene: *is quiet*
[13:41] Badazz: As a long time woman gamer, I am still somewhat discouraged that the gaming industry continues to develop games that suffer from Zelda syndrome. (Hero rescues brainless woman) Stubbs the zombie is a good example.

Do you feel the industry is improving how women are portrayed in games and in leadership roles or is there still improvements that need to be made?
[13:41] Nodgene: who is that for?
[13:41] Badazz: hyber
[13:42] Nodgene: k
[13:43] hybernuclear: Well, I havn't played a very wide range of games, but I feel in general that they are improving, like female hereos, Bloodrayne, and smarter (sometimes sassier) female characters, and yes, there aren't as nearly as many "brainless" women in gaming anymore, I think they know you're here girls!
[13:43] Badazz: Okay, anyone want to comment further?
[13:43] [Xfire++] GODJonez: That's the traditional storyline for many (non-gaming) stories, you have been read these stories as children, you have seen them on TV's. So why not have them in games too?
[13:44] Badazz: I agre jonez
[13:44] hybernuclear: I also think it was a "how men veiw women (perhaps that man's ideal woman?)stereotype thing
[13:44] Nodgene: I would agree, it's a social reflection.
[13:44] [Xfire++] GODJonez: but I see that gaming industry is (fortunately) moving towards accepting women as the heroes of the games as well
[13:44] hybernuclear: well, I am fine with that genre, but brainless? that's just stupid
[13:44] Nodgene: haha, if a man's ideal woman is brainless that's a pretty damning reflection of them.
[13:44] hybernuclear: no duh
[13:45] [Xfire++] GODJonez: I take no zombies
[13:45] Badazz: I think I am gonna get snowytch with the next question
[13:45] SnoWytch: ok
[13:45] Badazz: it is a tripple
[13:45] SnoWytch: Oh boy :D
[13:45] Badazz: How would you describe the cutlure of gaming to a complete noob. say one of your girl members brought her mom into gaming..?


How would you prepare her for what she is going to see/feel and hear?


What would you like to say to the Gaming Industry as a woman gamer?
[13:47] SnoWytch: No. 1 Hmmmm. It is a unique culture. We have our own way of speaking, and our unique social ladder, based on game kills!
[13:48] SnoWytch: No 2. My oldest daughter is 11 and has taken off in games, online and off. She tends to be shy and look to me to answer for her when spoken to in a game. I am slowly getting used to talking to people in game.
[13:48] SnoWytch: getting her used to talking*
[13:49] SnoWytch: To the gaming industry: I am a Gamer first and formost, who just happens to be a woman.
[13:49] Badazz: hoorah
[13:50] Badazz: OK, we are done. I had a few more questions, but they are already covered by answers and questions that we went over!!
[13:50] Badazz: I think we did a great job today folks
[13:50] Badazz: and
[13:50] Badazz: we need to think about our next chat
[13:50] Apocalyptica: right, I need to be off now. Sorry about that. Need to catch a plane. Talk to you all next time.

[13:50] Badazz: First off... when, how often
[13:50] Apocalyptica: totally agree with that: SnoWytch: To the gaming industry: I am a Gamer first and formost, who just happens to be a woman.

[13:50] Badazz: by Jasmin
[13:50] Badazz: thanks!!!
[13:50] Apocalyptica: anytime
[13:50] Apocalyptica: N8 @ all
[13:50] Apocalyptica: was excelllent
[13:50] * HellSpawn07 waves
[13:51] Apocalyptica: *waves* :)
[13:51]
[13:51] Badazz: Ok, so how often do we want to get together???
[13:51] Badazz: and chat
[13:51] Badazz: 1 X a month
[13:51] hybernuclear: We're done? Ok. Half of me is getting bored getting mostly predictable answers (I'm not putting anyone down) and the other half of me doesn't have anything better to do, and the other half of me is genuinely interested. (yes 3/2) Bye All!
[13:51] Badazz: 2 x?
[13:51] HellSpawn07: once every 3 years
[13:51] hybernuclear: 4x?
[13:51] Nodgene: http://whatshlsci.ytmnd.com/
[13:51] [{A}Teratos: SnoWytch: To the gaming industry: I am a Gamer first and formost, who just happens to be a woman.
[13:51] [{A}Teratos: me too :)
[13:52] SnoWytch: :)
[13:52] [{A}Teratos: err..well, I'm not a woman, but...
[13:52] Nodgene: I can't say I;m part of that elite club :(
[13:52] [{A}Teratos: you get the point
[13:52] Schattenjager: Doesnt matter to me.. sometimes i might not be around.. btu Babz knows when i am
[13:52] Badazz: and TOPIC for next chat?????
[13:52] Badazz: ANy suggestions?
[13:53] Nodgene: *shrugs*
[13:53] [{A}Teratos: Well, I think there are more topics to be discussed, probably tougher questions too.

Monday, October 29, 2007

The Cult: Women in Gaming : Get into Now

Women in Gaming : Get into Now
The People Involved.
Badazz
[uwe]helen kennedy
Apocalyptica
SnoWytch
[sCs]HellSpawn07
pms.Jumper
[PMS] Athena Twin
Nodgene
Drama Queen
Tergen
{J1}
Celeste
Wyldfyre
I invited the people that were guests whose usernames I could get this week from the Debate on Thursday. Then I started grabbing a few peeps that attended the Debate as well. After that I grabbed some guys and gals from my community that I thought might be most interested in the topic, and have pertinent views on the topic. We did bring guys in, but they are outnumbered as you can see :) Thanks HellSpawn07 and Nodgene for joining us!
Our first chat will be on Saturday Midday on the pacific side of the United States.. Trying really hard to be time friendly with the Euro community :)
I will take notes from the chats and share them here to update you one what we talked about and if we came to any concrete solutions and ideas for the gaming industry.
So far everyone in the group is pretty excited! See ya all Saturday
Badazz





Women in Gaming Main chat in October!

On Thursday Evening I attended this Debate Chat at Xfire with many others. It was a memorable experience. Here are the notes from the chat. The night of the chat, I was speaking with another attendee that I had added to my Xfire about the chat. We were both exited and I was inspired to keep this Topic Alive on Xfire. So I created a Cult group with Xfire's beta Clan program. The name of our group is Women in Gaming : Get into Now...wiggin for short. The response has been great, many of the guests from the debate have joined up, and agree to continue chatting together. I think this group has a potential to impact the gaming industry for men and women and gamers all over the world. Our panel is full of talent, intelligence and passion. Keep up to date on our chats here at this blog and cheer us on as we move into the Future! Much thanks to Brinstar for supporting us and giving advice as this group grows.
[link=http://www.xfire.com/cms/xf_debate_transcript9_main/]Debate Transcript[/link]
October 25th, 2007
Guest Moderator:
Helen Kennedy, Senior Lecturer, University of the West of England
Guests:
Leigh Alexander, Staff Writer, Gamasutra
Colette Bennett, Editor, Destructoid
Amber "AthenaTwin" Dalton, Clan Leader and Founder, PMS Clan
Robyn Fleming, Senior Editor, Cerise Magazine

Jasmin Kassner, Founder, PixelTamer Games
Lesley Smith, Freelance Games Journalist
Plus, Many Members of Xfire that Requested to attend.
[uwe]helen kennedy: What are the specific challenges you have faced as a player of games and as a professional?
Robyn: I think most women have had at least a few irritating conversations about whether they "really" play games.
DestructoidColette: I know personally people still don't really believe women play games, or if they do, they play girl-specific games
Lesley Smith: Very true! Someone I worked for once told me there was no such thing as women gamers, despite hiring me.
[Cerise] Robyn: *nod* and when you do something gaming-related for work, the assumptions just keep right on coming - only now it's about you as a professional as well as a hobbyist. Nice!
Apocalyptica: I come from germany, and must say that the only hurdle as a proffessional was to show the other male coders that I am just a good coder as they are. In gaming I have never realy had problem beeing accepted as a gamer...must be because I am good :p
[uwe]helen kennedy: Great. Do you think that most women are taken seriously as players? and if not why not? is this true of women who play games competitively? -[uwe]helen kennedy: Apologies from Leigh who wont be able to join us after all..
DestructoidColette: Personally I feel you just have to let these stereotypes roll off you. I think women are very much judged because of the fact that we are women; a stereotype that is hundreds of years old won't just go away because a girl shows up and says she can beat you at a game.
Lesley Smith: I find men are often shocked when they find out women play the same games, like WoW or Gears of War.
Apocalyptica: When a woman gamer is good she will get accepted I find. Just look at the realy good CS and UT female gamers. They rock. They love playing competivly.
[Cerise] Robyn: I think there are lots of gaming communities that are ready to take women seriously as players.
[Cerise] Robyn: but, yeah, I think there's pressure
[uwe]helen kennedy: Is there more pressure to somehow need to be even better than male colleagues or other male players just to get accepted? Have any of you experienced this directly as players or professionals?
Lesley Smith: Oh yeah
[Cerise] Robyn: and also pressure to be the "right" kind of female player, depending on which sort of group one is trying to get along with
DestructoidColette: Personally for me there isn't, because I don't play competitively. I can say as a journalist sometimes there is an air of judgement from other journalists, but it isn't frequent in comparison to the ugly treatment some competitive female gamers face.
Apocalyptica: I truly believe that after a certain age of 14-15, females do develope they own taste which is not formed by their parents no more. So some will be comepetitive some not, just like boys. I believe the difference lies more in culture as in gender.
[uwe]helen kennedy: interesting Robyn, can you say more about what the 'right' kind of female player might be in different contexts?
[Cerise] Robyn: sometimes there's pressure to be "one of the guys", and not remind your fellow players that you -are- a woman
[Cerise] Robyn: and other times, the pressure is to be cute or sexy, or to play the damsel in distress, etc.
[uwe]helen kennedy: Apocalyptica & others.. what are the elements of 'culture' are particularly problematic?
Apocalyptica: But don't you think the pressure is just to be good. I mean when you are competitive does it realy matter if your male or female? isn't just the drive to be the best what counts?
DestructoidColette: I think the image of women in games versus women who play games in real life is always an issue.
[Cerise] Robyn: Apocalyptica, I think that -ought- to be the prevailing pressure, sure
DestructoidColette: women are still being heavily objectified in most games. Whether we like it or not, it has an impact on how we are viewed in general.
[Cerise] Robyn: I definitely agree, Colette.
Lesley Smith: Exactly, I agree too.
Apocalyptica: For instance I find that in america girl tend to be more like girl as in europe for instance . Especially northern europe, where most people just wanna be people. When you sit in front of a computer you only need a mouse and a keyboard Stuff like physical strength, gender etc. don't matter at all.
[uwe]helen kennedy: What differences are there in the treatment and representation of women between an 'offline' community and culture and that which exists online?
Apocalyptica: I truly believet that most females put themself in that role. Thereis totally no need for it. Just be a good gamer or as a professional be good at your job.
[Cerise] Robyn: I think people feel free to be much ruder online than to one's face.
DestructoidColette: Well, the internet gives you the ability to create yourself as you wish (to a degree.) You don't have to identify as female if you don't want to. Hiding your gender seems pointless, but some women will do it so they won't be harassed.
Lesley Smith: I think in offline games, it's harder to be a woman. Most protagonists are male and in online, people assume that you're male even if you play a female character. At the end of the day, how we act within the game doesn't have to reflect on what gender we are in real life.
[uwe]helen kennedy: There are many contexts of gameplay and I think that maybe some of the processes that lead to women (and young girls maybe) opting out of game culture occur long before they get anywhere near a computer. What about you all?
[Cerise] Robyn: but online communities can be really great for finding communities that are a really good match for your gaming style
Lesley Smith: Oh yes.
Apocalyptica: indeed
[Cerise] Robyn: definitely, Helen
[PMS] Athena Twin: Offline is more friendly I think then online...online (where people hide behind anonymity) is where women are really harrassed more I think.
[uwe]helen kennedy: Apocalyptica could you say a bit more about your point about 'females' putting themselves in that role? Is there an issue there about women setting themselves up as victims within games culture?
Apocalyptica: no I do not believe that at all. I play nearly only MMO's and have never been harrassed. Hell I am still playing Ultima Online in my 9th year.

DestructoidColette: Games became important to me when I was 8 years old. I think girls of today may have to contend with what their parents think of gaming and if they believe in the negative media that people like Jack Thompson support. If that doesn;t stand in the way, they may be able to discover the gamign culture naturally.
[PMS] Athena Twin: I play FPS, very differanyt type of game and users
Apocalyptica: Yes I used to play FPs, now I am getting old and reaction time slower lol...so I switched to MMO's hehe
[uwe]helen kennedy: Collette's point is a critical one - games and gamesplay are perceived very negatively and often subject to scares and media panics which are very likely to inform the ways in which parents behave in 'allowing' certain activities for their daughters and 'discouraging' others.
Lesley Smith: I generally play MMOs or survival horror, the latter usually has a strong female bias, promoting women as being physically weak but resourceful, growing through out the game.
[Cerise] Robyn: Helen, I think there's also a lot of peer-group pressure for girls who might want to get into gaming
[PMS] Athena Twin: I dont mind seeing differant types of women charactors at all, but I do like to see strong women mixed in the games.
DestructoidColette: It scares me because when I think of what games represented to me, and how they made my childhood and young adulthood so much better, I fear that girls growing up may be cheated out of that because of the media image of gaming.
Lesley Smith: The problem is - here in the UK - this industry treats women gamers as separate, a special entity to be patted on the head.
[PMS] Athena Twin: well women are in infancy there.
[uwe]helen kennedy: What problems are there in ways in which women are represented within games and in games marketing and advertising - you have mentioned some genre differences that seem to be particularly relevant but are there other issues that need some attention.
[PMS] Athena Twin: they need to be ecouraged to get more women in general.
[Cerise] Robyn: the pink poison problem
Lesley Smith: EUGH
Apocalyptica: Here in germany I can gladly say that women gamers are jsut as respected and accepted as male gamers
[PMS] Athena Twin: until there are more women coming out and saying "look we are here, we play just like you do"
Lesley Smith: YES!
[uwe]helen kennedy: Athena - how are women in infancy? Do you mean as gamers or as participants in the industry?
[PMS] Athena Twin: both actually, and i do not mean numbers in general
[Cerise] Robyn: that games that are targeted at women are always in pink boxes and advertised as for women -only-
Apocalyptica: exatly women don't realy want pink games, they want good games
[PMS] Athena Twin: i mean as far as exposure
[PMS] Athena Twin: that we are a viable market companies hsould be targeting as consumers, employees, etc
Lesley Smith: pink consoles are a bane, I personally hate them intensely and yet the major manufacturers continue creating them.
[uwe]helen kennedy: The whole pink games phenomenon was lamentably ill-conceived - lets dance on its demise..
[PMS] Athena Twin: <---likes pink game systems :D Apocalyptica: only person I know who own a pink PS2 is a guy [Cerise] Robyn: I kinda like the pink - but I hate the way it's marketed [PMS] Athena Twin: but some women dont, and i think the point is it is OK Lesley Smith: I think women don't really care about the colour, it's the console and games that matter but the industry can't understand they do not need to make special ones just for us [PMS] Athena Twin: we are individuals that like all differant things, brought together by a love of gaming [Cerise] Robyn: Exactly, Lesley Lesley Smith: Exactly DestructoidColette: I would like to see less weak female characters in games -- basically the "Aerith" syndrome makes women look bad, as we are portayed as "healers", but rarely as fighters [uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you like pink games systems - is that different to the whole pink games nonsense that emerged after the success of Barbie Fashion Designer? [PMS] Athena Twin: I think they all work together, have the games we like, and have the way to make it as personal as we like it. [PMS] Athena Twin: it is about personal preferances, and neither is wrong [Cerise] Robyn: Yes, Athena Twin - if someone likes the color, they ought to be able to get consoles and accessories in that shade Lesley Smith: Has anyone seen Ubisoft#s latest line of games? The Imagine series? [PMS] Athena Twin: not just color, fashion is a natrual companant ofr male and female audiances...personalization is key [Cerise] Robyn: augh Lesley Smith: that is a prime example of how not to do games for women Lesley Smith: overkill Apocalyptica: well what I really want to bring across is that in front of the pc we are all the same. no matter what color, what gender or what sexual prefenrences. We have this unique opportunity to be all the same: Gamers! Why das the marketing still cling on to the old fashioned values of male or female and stuff. Its stupid. by marketing a game to guys you lose females players and vica versa. Marketing peeps have to come into the present and realize that they can just market good games!!! Lesley Smith: Amen to that, sister! [uwe]helen kennedy: Athena, just to backtrack a little - could you expand on what you mean by exposure. And could you all say a little more about the Ubisoft line. DestructoidColette: Well, the hard thing about trashing the Ubisoft line is that it is based on a survey of what girl sin a certain age range wanted (supposedly) Lesley Smith: Hah [Cerise] Robyn: those kinds of surveys are usually not particularly impartial, though [PMS] Athena Twin: well, women on the forefront is still underdeveloped, and we owe it to the next generation to be able to say 'yes you are a girl" and that is fine to play DestructoidColette: I don't like the idea that these games are being pushed at little girls, but at the same time how do you market Contra to an 8 year old girl? [uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you think the marketing and advertising is so resistant to what seems to all of you (and me) like fairly common sense ideas. Make good games targeted at anyone/everyone? What do you think is at stake for them in maintaining very rigidly defined ways of packaging games and consoles? [PMS] Athena Twin: that is only thing that will bring in more women into the area and out from behind there screens DestructoidColette: I think all PR and marketing ideas are directly linked to the bottom line = money [Cerise] Robyn: I think that's the way toys and entertainment are marketed to kids, generally - very rigidly defined by gender roles. Lesley Smith: Yeah [PMS] Athena Twin: of course they are...and both are the companants of success [uwe]helen kennedy: Colette - the issue of pushing Contra to an 8 year old... is that more a question of intelligent ratings and clear information about content? Just as a parent wouldnt want their daughter to watch films or tv with adult themes or content..? [Cerise] Robyn: and so when someone produces a game, they go with what has been shown to work with children of the same age group [PMS] Athena Twin: look at viva pinata :D DestructoidColette: which is what makes it difficult to ever escape these stereotypes. Lesley Smith: I love VP [PMS] Athena Twin: no one ever thought that would have success with adults and women, it was for kids [PMS] Athena Twin: ME TOO! Apocalyptica: Well as everybody knows,marketing guys are just that. Marketing guys. they will sell anything. but do not really grasp the idea as yet. Maybe one day they will wisen up to this unique opportunity and make even more sales. [PMS] Athena Twin: my gardens ROCK [Cerise] Robyn: *laugh* Lesley Smith: everyone i know - male or female - is addicted to it. [uwe]helen kennedy: Mm.. do you think that market surveys of girls and young women are really likely to produce 'out of character' responses? [PMS] Athena Twin: yup, once you play u can not get enough DestructoidColette: Well- what I am getting at is that fwhen I was growing up, I played all kinds of games - COntra and Barbie games alike. I got to choose what I liked. In today's day and age, it sem smuch more important to be marketing at certain groups since gaming has become such a powerful industry Lesley Smith: I've been trying to get a chewnicorn. [Cerise] Robyn: I can see that, Colette [Cerise] Robyn: Helen, I think what surveys like that produce are -expected- responses Lesley Smith: Yeah DestructoidColette: I agree with that, Robyn [Cerise] Robyn: everyone knows girls like pink! [PMS] Athena Twin: Barbie makes me throw up, but I still support her games because it intorduces girls everywhere to a love of playing...then I can get my hands on them later for soem Halo 3 :D [Cerise] Robyn: so when you ask a bunch of little girls if they like pink, already planning to market the pink Barbie game... [Cerise] Robyn: I think that's a good thing to consider, Athena Twin Apocalyptica: Never trust a statistic you did not fake yourself is a common saying. statistics out of survey can be bend any way you like them to be. they are nto worth the paper they are printed on [Cerise] Robyn: as adult women gamers, we look at a lot of the girl gamers and go "wow, that's crappy" [Cerise] Robyn: but they do introduce some girls to gaming, and that's awesome [PMS] Athena Twin: nothing is wrong with pink!!! what is more wrong is little girls given barbie dolls and ez-bake-ovens while the boys get race cars and play cowboy and indians Lesley Smith: the whole pink thing is purely down to that childhood idea that pink is for girls and blue for boys but these days that idea seems totally outdated. [PMS] Athena Twin: it is about how they are raised Lesley Smith: Yeah [Cerise] Robyn: *nods* Lesley Smith: the thing is, aside from games, everything in the industry is still geared at men. Apocalyptica: you know, I am a gamer. When I am playing it realy does not matter to me if another gamer is male or female. Are female not seperating themself currently for insisting that they are female gamers? Can't they just play games and be happy with it? [uwe]helen kennedy: Athena twin, this is an interesting issue about how aspirations are somehow already built in to the toys and games girls are given to play with and choose from. How do you think we could go about addressing this? Who should we hold accountable? [PMS] Athena Twin: I saw heads off on Gears of War then go play my Sims for some downtime [PMS] Athena Twin: it is about EXPOSURE [PMS] Athena Twin: expose women to games they do not traditionaly play, and more then likely they will ENJOY it [Cerise] Robyn: I think, again, that marketing could be a big factor there [uwe]helen kennedy: Apocalyptica this is a vital question that is no doubt on the lips of many gamers tonight.. why does being a woman matter? should it? Should we dismantle our stall and agree to play nicely with the current games? Are we making ourselves a target? Apocalyptica: so, market games at all not just a specific type in this way you will get the exposure [PMS] Athena Twin: but if they are nevber exposed to it...by marketing directors, game publishers, or thier parents, they that is where the fault lies...in society itself Apocalyptica: I believe most women make themself a target. tbh. [PMS] Athena Twin: yes, expose women to all types of games, the numbers will increase [Cerise] Robyn: I can't agree, Apocalyptica [uwe]helen kennedy: Do you others agree that online we are entirely anonymous. In my own experience there is a lot of effort put in to trying to find out whether you are female and then if you are 'exposed' making rather inappropriate *advances*.. Lesley Smith: I think it's a case of there are no such thing as women or men games, there should be just gamers. DestructoidColette: being a woman doesn't matter...but frankly a lot of female gamers have no problem sexualizing their images, so there is the crossing of lines again [Cerise] Robyn: I've received too many random rape threats just for having a female name on an online game Lesley Smith: REALLY? Lesley Smith: Wow [PMS] Athena Twin: yes Lesley Smith: that's kinda scary [Cerise] Robyn: Hell yes, it is DestructoidColette: thats awful [PMS] Athena Twin: online can be horrific Lesley Smith: *hugs* Apocalyptica: I always play female chars and never had this happening to me? Maybe it is the way you are ingame? Lesley Smith: Me too [Cerise] Robyn: I don't think so [PMS] Athena Twin: well look at this way... [Cerise] Robyn: but I think it's great that you haven't had that experience [PMS] Athena Twin: why should you hav e to HIDE being a female? you should not [Cerise] Robyn: it doesn't happen to every woman [Cerise] Robyn: but it does happen to many [Cerise] Robyn: agreed, Athena Twin [PMS] Athena Twin: no very true, but many Lesley Smith: That is such a shame Apocalyptica: no, not hide beeing a female, I never do. But you don't have to make it a big deal ... [Cerise] Robyn: see, I don't [Cerise] Robyn: when I'm playing a game, I often like to have a female avatar [Cerise] Robyn: but that's as far as I tend to go [PMS] Athena Twin: for instance, in PMS Clan we play only with people we know, custom rooms, we do not do regular matchmaking Apocalyptica: I also heard of guys beeing stalked in MMO's by female. [Cerise] Robyn: and I still get that crap [PMS] Athena Twin: to keep the harrasment out of our gameplay DestructoidColette: I dont hide it, but I dont sign in and type "OMG GUYS IM A GIRL BOOBZ ROXXOR" [Cerise] Robyn: but I seriously think that if there are women gamers who -do- want to make their gender a big deal, they should have that option, too Lesley Smith: No one should be harassed in a game, that's terrible Apocalyptica: Indeed, but it is happening. But is is happening to both, male and females. [PMS] Athena Twin: we will always need visiable role models in the industry...in dev companies, PR personal, gamers, u name it [uwe]helen kennedy: Is the fact that this kind of experience seems rare and clearly shocking a sign that things are improving? What changes can you identify that seem to be making things better? Lesley Smith: The problem is the industry is massivelly lacking in women [Cerise] Robyn: I think things may be getting better [PMS] Athena Twin: they are not lacking..... [PMS] Athena Twin: VISABILITY is DestructoidColette: I agree with Robyn. there are more women in the industry than ever. [Cerise] Robyn: when I first started playing online games, it was as a MUD-player in the 90's [Cerise] Robyn: and being visibly female was pretty unusual Apocalyptica: yay Apocalyptica: which MUD did you play? Lesley Smith: it is getting better. Apocalyptica: indeed it is [PMS] Athena Twin: yes, we need more women visbale, keeps other women motivated [Cerise] Robyn: I mostly played one called Magrathea - still do, now and then ;-) [Cerise] Robyn: I think visability is great [PMS] Athena Twin: i see several more female teams out in competitons now, which is great Lesley Smith: Yeah. [Cerise] Robyn: gets other women interested, and also makes it clear that we do exist Apocalyptica: like me with Ultima Onle, just can't somehow get away from ti. Even though LotrO is pretty cool right now I find [PMS] Athena Twin: those are the ones media interview and help give exposure [Cerise] Robyn: having more women working in gaming will make being a hobbyist in gaming better Apocalyptica: well here I know a few game developing companies that have loads and loads of female coders [uwe]helen kennedy: We are already running out of time so some final questions.. If you could effect one single immediate change that would improve contemporary games culture what would it be and why? Apocalyptica: grafik peeps anyways Lesley Smith: Stop segregating women. make games and magazines for gamers. Lesley Smith: not for one gender or the other. [PMS] Athena Twin: we have that alreday ;) DestructoidColette: More emphasis on creativity and breaking the mold. We have enough FPS, RPG, Platformers, etc etc. Try to strive for genre hybrids- or new genres altogether. [Cerise] Robyn: more variety of female characters in all kinds of games Apocalyptica: Marketing should change to "Global" in a sense of no sexism, racsim, etc.... Lesley Smith: Yeah [PMS] Athena Twin: make developement groups more diversified, all races, backgrounds, lifestyles to appeal to all aspects of gamers
Apocalyptica: indeed